Ivan Dean, Speeches Index

Wednesday 17 November 2010

STATUTORY HOLIDAYS AMENDMENT BILL 2010

Mr DEAN ( Windermere ) - The bill comes back to us again after a period of 12 months because of the position taken by this House previously in relation to the Anzac Day holiday. I am passionate about this. I think I identified with that the last time this matter came before this Chamber. It is interesting that over the past months there has been a concerted effort, by the minister and his colleagues, to approach and pick off members, one by one, around the State. It is interesting that they have not been near my office. Well, they have been near my office. In fact, they have walked past my office door on a number of occasions, and I have said hello to them in the passage. Also, the minister came to the offices in Launceston and briefed one member there and spoke to him in relation to this matter.

Ms Forrest - Maybe he has lost your phone number.

Mr DEAN - He has my phone number, I will mention that at the moment. He did not even bother to put his head in the door and ask what I thought about it. He did not ask about my position, and he did not ask to talk to me about it.

But he has got my phone number, because he did ring me. He rang to tell me he was introducing this bill back into the House. He did that several months ago, late on a Friday night. He said he was simply ringing to let me know he was doing that, because he feared the press would want to talk to me and would probably ring me over the weekend, and he wanted me to be aware of what was going on.

Mr Hall - I had the same call.

Mr DEAN - You got the same call, did you? That is the last I have seen or heard from the minister, and that is the last I have seen or heard from the three amigos who have been going around talking about this matter.

There are a lot of issues. I want to refer to the documentation and I will refer to the second reading speech notes as well. There is some very cunning use of words in these documents. You can read the document that the minister sent around to all of us, a reprint was in the papers in relation to it. I want to identify with one or two of those comments at this stage.

On page 1 it is interesting:

'The RSL and the Tasmanian Veterans Advisory Council do not oppose the public holiday amendments.'

Madam President, that comment is not dishonest, but it is a very cunning and clever use of words. Let me say this, right from the word go, the RSL do not oppose it. That is right. But let me tell you, Madam President, they do not support it, either. They do not have a position. I will go into that in a little more detail later on.

The same quote was made in the paper when this was reprinted. People reading that would assume RSL support, and take that assumption one step further - if the RSL supports it, why should we not support it?

Ms Rattray - Not these members in this House.

Mr DEAN - It is very misleading. This is what has been happening. This is the sort of thing that has been happening. There are other issues in that document as well.

Mr Parkinson - Why is it misleading?

Mr DEAN - It is misleading because it indicates, by the way it is written, and would be interpreted, that the RSL supports a public holiday for Anzac Day when it falls on a Sunday and Easter Tuesday.

Mr Wing - They don't oppose it, therefore it must be okay.

Mr DEAN - That is absolutely right. There is a lot of talk about a lot of issues. I will refer later to things that are happening around the country, but members of this Chamber might be interested to know that the New South Wales Government is revisiting this issue. The New South Wales Government is introducing into the Parliament a bill to look at all their public holidays.

I have the detail in relation to the Public Holidays Bill 2010, which is from New South Wales and where I have taken this from. I will just read three or four of the dot points of what this bill covers. The first one is:

'o from 2012, guaranteeing a weekday public holiday when Christmas Day, Boxing Day or New Years Day falls on a weekend

" Anzac Day to be commemorated with a public holiday on 25 April only'.

And if you read through the documentation here, what it does is simply expand on that. It says for 2011, yes, the Anzac Day holiday for Easter will be maintained and retained. However, from 2012 if the bill gets through that House, if the changes are made, then we could see some changes to that Anzac Day holiday.

Mr Finch - Through you, Madam President - have they dealt with a bill before?

Mr DEAN - They have.

Mr Finch - We have had a bill before and we are now doing a second one. Have they had a preliminary bill and are now doing a second one, or is this the first time that they are bringing it into their Parliament?

Mr DEAN - They must have done. I can only assume they have done, because the holiday was gazetted, as I understand it, in New South Wales for Anzac Day when it fell on a Sunday and on the Easter Monday. So I suspect they did deal with the bill previously. I do not know.

Ms Forrest - Through you, Madam President - this is about the whole harmonisation thing that has been the argument. The other States have gone down the path and gazetted an extra public holiday for Anzac Day when it falls on certain days.

Madam PRESIDENT - Order. The member for Windermere has the Floor and the Leader will respond, presumably, at the end of the debate.

Mr DEAN - Madam President, I just want to say that I do not know what will happen here today, but I will just endeavour to persuade members not to support the bill. There is one component of the bill that I really do not have an issue with and that is the Christmas Day and New Year's Day section. I do not really have any difficulties with that. But certainly in relation to the Anzac Day holidays on the Monday and on the Easter Tuesday I certainly have a huge issue and huge interest in that matter.

I am expecting that whatever happens, at the end of the day I will probably receive some similar treatment to what I received last time with this matter. I received a number of phone calls, my office received a number of phone calls and some of those phone calls were extremely aggressive and threatening violence. My position was stated to those people very clearly; having been a police officer for some 35 years, the threat of violence did not worry me at all. Even so, they simply paid out on me all that much more. What I did take exception to was the phone calls made to my office where my staff, my PA, had to deal with some of these issues. One of the phone calls was made here to this House. The phone call was put through to me and I had to take the call where a man challenged me on this occasion. I have his name here, Mr Ian Johnson. I do not know whether he is known to anybody. He threatened to come to my office and 'bash me up' to use his words. He raved on about how I had stolen from him a public holiday. I invited him to my office to do what he said he was going to do, foolishly. Had he turned up I am not quite sure what I would have done.

Members laughing.

Mr Wilkinson - You could have told him that the real Mr Dean is in the next room.

Mr Wing - You should have contacted the President.

Members laughing.

Mr DEAN - Because, Madam President, what I was going to say is I cannot run all that fast these days either, so I probably would have been in trouble.

Ms Forrest - He could be back. You should be careful.

Ms Thorp - There are also lots of Ian Johnsons, so be careful.

Mr DEAN - You are right. It was an Ian Johnson from the south of the State; I believe it was from the Claremont area, but I am not absolutely certain. That was the detail given to me, so whether he was giving the right area, I am not too sure. Australian and New Zealand Army Corp, that is what ANZAC is all about. Here we go again, deja vu, and if this is not successful does it come back again next year and the year after. I really thought that we as a Parliament had made a decision on this. These people, the minister and the previous minister, just do not really get it. This is a slight on our returned servicemen of which I am one and the honourable member for Western Tiers is one. The diggers, who both fought and gave their lives that you might live in peace, so that we would have a peaceful country, a good country.

In all areas of conflict: the First World War at Gallipoli, the landing at Gallipoli, was where it was born, but it has now gone on to recognise all of the other wars that Australia is still fighting in and has fought in. It is recognising those people who lost their lives, who fought and did what they needed to do for you and me.

The First World War at Gallipoli; the Second World War, where my father served, and I might say a little more about that later on; the Korean War; Malaysia and Borneo, where I served active service; and Vietnam, where the member for Western Tiers served; New Guinea, the Kokoda Track. I refer to that because there has been a lot of information and detail in relation to the Kokoda Track over the past few years, about the braveness of the soldiers and the diggers who fought in that area. And I might say also that my uncle served on that track. I have a letter in my possession that he wrote to his mother about the track and his service on the track and I might read a couple of parts from that letter a little later on because it identifies what they did and what they gave for us so that we might be able to live in peace.

Madam PRESIDENT - As long as you keep it within the confines of the Statutory Holidays Amendment Bill in front of you.

Mr DEAN - It will do, Madam President, because it will identify very clearly what they had done for us and the reasons why we now observe Anzac Day on Anzac Day and not on another day, and it is also about those currently serving in Iraq and Afghanistan and the list goes on.

These diggers, both living and dead, would be horrified to now understand that the misery of their suffering, their giving of life, the pain and suffering they were involved in was being used simply to provide another public holiday, a day of absolutely no significance other than the fact that Anzac Day, a day enshrined in the memory of Australia and New Zealand and all Australians and New Zealanders forever happens to fall on a Sunday and Easter Monday and we know it is only going to fall on those days very spasmodically throughout the next 40 years.

In our case it is simply to bring us into line with the mainland. It is just not good enough. As far as I am concerned it is about bastardising, debasing Anzac Day. I feel strongly about this matter. To give you just a small understanding of the sacrifices and what our diggers went through I did say I would refer to that letter and I probably will do as I go through. That war on the Kokoda Track is said to be the most violent war that the Australians have ever fought in. That is what correspondence says, that is what the diggers say and those people who are interested in our history.

What has changed since we dealt with this matter in 2009? What has changed in relation to the reasons behind the introduction of the bill here again? I do not think anything has changed other than a year has passed where we did not have the holiday as some of the other mainland States did. The sky did not fall in. There was some confusion and the confusion was because, in my opinion, the State jumped the gun, as they have done before on other occasions, and no doubt through COAG obviously believing that legislation would go through in every State because Monday 26 April 2010 had been nationally advertised as a public holiday. It was nationally advertised, correspondence in place, that Monday 26 would be a public holiday, so there was a jumping of the gun here before any of these things had been approved and signed off within each State jurisdiction.

What did happen, though, was that small business employers were saved a small fortune. We are told that that could have been up around $50 million. It was a large saving for those small businesses. Nothing was taken away from our diggers, those that paid the ultimate sacrifice for both you and me.

Madam President, I want to quote from Richard Dowling, Chamber of Commerce and Industry, who made the following comment on 20 April 2010:

'"There are already enough public holidays. Employers have to pay people to do nothing," Mr Dowling said.

"Passing legislation because the other states do makes no sense."'

In addition to that, Madam President, I want to read into Hansard the letter that we have all received from the TCCI, and from Mr Robert Wallace. That letter is dated 15 November 2010. It has been printed in the press previously. I quote:

'TCCI opposes ANZAC Day substitute that will incur further productivity losses for the State

Statement by Robert Wallace - TCCI Chief Executive

The state's peak employer body, the Tasmanian Chamber of Commerce and Industry (TCCI) is opposing the Tasmanian Government's proposed statutory public holiday when ANZAC Day falls on a Sunday.

"The TCCI estimates that it costs Tasmanian employers up to $50 million in lost labour productivity and additional penalty rate costs for each additional statutory public holiday."

"Tasmanian businesses cannot afford to have more costs thrust upon them at this time. Tasmania already has the lowest labour productivity and one of the weakest economies in the nation" said TCCI Chief Executive Robert Wallace.

"The Tasmanian Government cannot afford extra public holidays either. We already know that the Government is $195 million worse off due to reductions in GST receipts."'

And we know that could be much more than that as well.

'"There are also likely to be reductions in own-source revenue of at least $100 million over four years.

"The Government needs to publish the costs to the Budget of additional public holidays for public servants.

"Having a day of tribute to Australia's service men and women is extremely important. We have that day - ANZAC Day. A further holiday added to that weekend is not justified."

Mr Wallace said most businesses would be seriously disadvantaged because they would need to close their doors while still incurring the same labour costs. Businesses that could not stop their operations, such as in aged care, would be forced to incur additional penalty rates.

"In the TCCI's December Quarter Survey of Business Expectations, 45 percent of businesses said that wages costs were a 'large' or 'critical' constraint, so we cannot offer to waste $50 million on another extravagant paid holiday.

"Businesses already expect a weakening Tasmanian economy over the next 12 months. Now is not the time to burden business further," Mr Wallace said.'

This day cannot be denigrated in any circumstances. Victoria had the holiday and there is now a strong call from the State RSL to abolish it. Those who look at the Herald Sun occasionally would have seen on 8 April 2010 a comment made in relation to the president of that organisation. I quote from that document, a document of 8 April 2010, 2.34 p.m., Herald Sun and it reads:

'Victoria's RSL chief wants the additional Monday public holiday abolished when Anzac Day falls on a weekend.

Australia's most poignant day of remembrance risks becoming an excuse for a holiday, Major-General David McLachlan has warned.

He said the day off jeopardised the significance of the day used to remember Aussie troops who have paid the ultimate sacrifice.

"I think people have begun to look at it as the Anzac Day holiday weekend rather than Anzac Day," Mr McLachlan said.

"I understand the position of people who think they will miss out on a public holiday but I think we are bigger than that.

"The point is people should remember Anzac Day."'

I spoke to a friend of mine, in fact, Madam President, in Victoria after last year's public holiday. These people, this family, always go to the Anzac Day marches; they would not have missed one in the last 20 years, I would not have thought. Their comment to me on this occasion was that they did not go to any Anzac Day service because they saw it as a long weekend and a good opportunity to take the family away and that is what happened. I suspect there were more who did that, however; we know that numbers are increasing and have been increasing over a number of years. Let us hope that continues. I think that is happening because we promote it so much within the schools.

It is not difficult to understand in this day and age why people take every opportunity to get away for a weekend, Madam President. We are all under a lot of stress and we all, or most of us, work hard and we need that extra time.

Over the past years the numbers attending Anzac Day parades has continued to grow and we have done everything right in that regard. We have had a lot of discussion in recent times about the, is it 21 still? I stand to be corrected on that number of soldiers killed, the diggers killed in Afghanistan. Do we use that and why would we use that, Madam President, as a reason or excuse for just another holiday? For no reason.

The rest of the country, in my opinion, that is the legislators, the ministers, the bureaucrats, have not really considered those who made significant sacrifices, the ultimate sacrifice in many cases, and have only considered themselves and followed without question and without proper consideration or forethought the rest of the mob and no doubt it involves the unions and it involves the unions very strongly, Madam President, and I will reference that a little more in a moment.

It obviously occurs simply because it meets the established criterion for the gazetting of a public holiday and it is the union thing. It has nothing to do with the significance of the history of the true meaning of this day. It is about unions and who is the most important here? Who is the most important - the unions or the Anzacs and all those who fought and are fighting for us, still there? In my opinion, it really minimises what Anzac Day stands for.

The landing at Gallipoli was on Sunday 25 April 1915. There was no holiday for the diggers on the Monday. They did not have a holiday because they fought on a Sunday. In actual fact they continued to give their lives on that Monday and they would have continually dodged bullets and grenades and everything else on that day. Here we are saying because Anzac Day falls on Sunday we want the Monday off or because it falls on Easter Monday we want the Tuesday off.

Parliament has already identified and established its position relative to this matter. This is not something that the union - and this is where the Labor Party comes from - should be able to force upon us. They have little compunction in negligibly impacting on what Anzac Day really stands for.

The Government espouses the position of it being needed for consistency to bring us in line with the rest of the country. I do not agree with that, Madam President, and if you start to reflect on the number of holidays that we have in this State and the consistency of holidays around the country, there is a significant difference. There is no consistency, no consistency at all.

Madam President, if you look at some of the Australian public holidays, for example at Labor Day, that is an interesting one, for 2010 you will note that that day, while it was taken by all the States, it was taken at different times in many instances: In Queensland, 3 May; in South Australia, 4 October; in New South Wales, 5 October; in Western Australia, 2 March; in Victoria, 9 March; in the ACT, 5 October; in Tasmania it is known as Eight Hours Day and held on 9 March.

Ms Forrest - It used to be the weekend before. It used to be the first weekend in March too.

Mr DEAN - Is that what it was?

Ms Forrest - Yes, it used to be. I am not sure why that changed but it did.

Mr DEAN - So there is no consistency. In the Northern Territory it is probably known as May Day I think; I think they refer to it as May Day and held this year on 3 May. Five different days throughout Australia. Is that consistency? Well, I guess it is consistency in as much as each of those places took the holiday off. There is certainly no other consistency.

The signing of all these cheques and things that we are told about in the second reading speech, it probably created some problems there and probably still does, I do not know. It is no consistency. The Queen's Birthday is another good example, Madam President.

Ms Rattray - Not even on the Queen's Birthday.

Mr DEAN - I know when her birthday is very clearly because it is the same day as mine is. There is a little bit of difference in our ages but it is the same date.

Ms Forrest - She is a bit younger than you, is she?

Mr DEAN - Thanks very much. The Queen's birthday is on 21 April but in 2010 this country celebrates it on the following dates: Queensland, 14 June; South Australia, 14 June; New South Wales, 8 June; Western Australia, 28 September; Victoria, 8 June; Tasmania, 8 June; Northern Territory, 14 June; and ACT, 8 June.

Mr Wing - With all those birthdays she must be about 880.

Members laughing.

[3.30 p.m.]
Mr DEAN - So that is celebrated on three different occasions throughout the year. Then we have the allocation of public holidays and regional holidays across the States. Each State has their own allocated regional holidays and there is no consistency with these holidays, nor should there be, because each State has the right to allocate public holidays to celebrate events and history of their region et cetera.

The minister graciously provided us with a copy of the holidays that we have and compared them against the other States. If you look at that document and read through it, it identifies very clearly where everything is, but when you look at it closely, if you look at cup day, for example, and Recreation Day. Recreation Day is simply a payback to the north because the south has Regatta Day. That is a nonsense holiday - absolutely ridiculous.

We need to do what New South Wales is doing, we need to go back to the drawing board and have a good look at our public holidays and just what is going on in this State. We need to harmonise them and do what some of the other States are doing.

Mr Wing - And try and remain consistent as far as possible, as Western Australia is.

Mr DEAN - Madam President, with the cup holidays, Hobart now does not have a half holiday or full holiday because it is on Regatta Day; the north still has the half-day holiday in Launceston, but other parts of Launceston go to Dilston which is two minutes away from the racetrack, if that is what they have the holiday for, they get a full day. Youngtown only get a half day. These people are about 10 kilometres away from the racetrack. I cannot reconcile this if you look at what is happening in this State.

If you look at Devonport, it is all about consistency, that is what they are talking about. Devonport has a half-day holiday for the Devonport Cup, but nobody else up there gets it. Latrobe doesn't get it.

Mr Gaffney - They do not gamble.

Mr DEAN - Ulverstone does not get it next door. Burnie does not get it. Only the Devonport municipality gets it. It is mind-boggling.

Mr Parkinson - You want to bring in a private member's bill and remove all those.

Mr DEAN - It needs some consideration as to why one part of a municipality gets a half day and the other part gets a full day. I do not think that too many members of the public would even know that.

Ms Forrest - They will now.

Mr DEAN - They will now. I get annoyed. This is a comment made by the previous minister and I think the current minister is making similar statements. This is a statement by the previous minister, Lisa Singh. 'Tasmania is now out of step with the rest of the nation. It was nonsensical of the Legislative Council members who voted down the proposed public holiday.'

Nonsensical because we voted it down, says Lisa Singh at that time. I think those words have been stated again by the current minister who had a shot at the Legislative Council that we should dare look at this closely, that we should dare make a decision that they did not want in another place. Do we follow the other States and Territories with everything that they do? No, we do not, thank goodness.

Ms Rattray - We take the lead sometimes.

Mr DEAN - We take a lead sometimes and we are taking a lead here. It would seem that that lead might well be looked at, if what I am told about New South Wales -

Mr Parkinson - The trouble is if ever we take a lead it more often than not seems to be in the wrong direction.

Mr Wing - Not in this case, surely not.

Mr Parkinson - Go back over all the reform legislation we have passed in this House. It has taken several attempts.

Mr DEAN - We are already out of step with the rest of the nation with holidays and so on. It is a nonsensical statement in my view, on their part, not the part of the Legislative Council in not supporting it.

It is wrong and misleading to say that both the RSL, national and State bodies, support a public holiday over and above Anzac Day on 25 April. It is wrong to infer that that is probably the case. As I said, they do not have a position. They neither support it, nor oppose it.

Mr Parkinson - Are you going to talk about this clause all day?

Mr DEAN - No, I am going to try to make the point.

Mr Parkinson - Have you an opinion on the principle of the bill?

Mr DEAN - This is about what the bill is all about.

Mr Parkinson - We are not in Committee yet.

Mr DEAN - Anzac Day holiday on the Monday when it falls on the Sunday.

Mr Parkinson - That is only one clause.

Mr DEAN - Of course it is. With the greatest respect to you, Leader, if you had been listening at the beginning of this session, I said that I was not really opposed to the second part of it, the Christmas Day and the Boxing Day holidays. I said I really had no issue on that because nobody, no member of the public, no business has been to me about those days. Albeit I know that businesses are concerned about it, I know that businesses are extremely concerned about it in New South Wales and some of the other States are concerned about it, the way they have gone. But here in this situation I am absolutely opposed to it.

On 16 January 2009 this is what the RSL National President said:

'We do not support the need for an extra public holiday, there is no point served in it. We should commemorate Anzac Day on 25 April irrespective of the day of the week.'

That was the National President, Bill Crews. I can quote from documentation, but at this stage I do not think there is any need to, I have made the point fairly clear. In an interview with the Daily Telegraph Mr Crews went on to say:

'It was an excuse for just another day off work.'

At this time the Veterans Affairs Minister, Alan Griffin, said he fully supported the RSL's position. He came out in that same release and made a similar statement to that.

I have spoken with many returned servicemen and women, and groups of people, and not one person has yet given their support for the ex gratia holidays. I would have expected that there might have been a few. That is how strongly they think about it.

On Sunday, 24 October at the Navy Day Commemorative Service at George Town I was told in no uncertain terms to stand by my previous position. I spoke with Mr Bill Kaine, and we all know Mr Bill Kaine, the State President of the RSL of this State. He says that while the position was one of not having a position for the RSL, the body, he was strongly opposed to the Monday and Tuesday holiday. He gave me his permission to quote him.

Mr Parkinson - Why was he opposed to it?

Mr DEAN - Because he sees it as having no real significance. He sees it as taking away from what Anzac Day is all about and for no damn good reason, just to keep us in line with probably some of the mainland States.

On 16 October, I attended the 6th Field Gunners Association's 55th annual reunion and was applauded for my stance and asked to once again not back off on my position in relation to these holidays. All of these people in that group, and I should say I am a patron of that group as well, were World War II veterans and most were in their eighties and some were in their nineties. All people say something similar and along the lines of not interfering with what Anzac Day stands for.

The George Town and Claremont RSLs are clear in their positions, and so are a lot of RSLs and clubs around the place. They find it distasteful and a slur on our servicemen and women. As one said:

'To use Anzac Day as an excuse or explanation for a public holiday is contemptible.'

Madam President, following the loss of this bill previously on my first appearance at an RSL function at George Town I was given a standing ovation, for the first time in my life, for the stance I took in fending it off. I felt good about it.

Scottsdale RSL is very clear on their position of not supporting these holidays. I will just quickly read the letter I received from the Scottsdale RSL, and I quote:

'At the Scottsdale RSL sub-branch committee meeting on 28th October 2010 the sub-branch committee were unanimous that if Anzac Day falls on Saturday, Sunday or Easter Monday that there be no extra public holiday. As former soldiers we wish to uphold the tradition of Anzac Day being on the 25th April with no extra public holiday.

We would like to thank you for seeking our thoughts on this very important subject as it is of great importance to our present troops and the RSL movement.

Yours truly,' -

Signed by the President, Mr Bruce Scott.

I made contact with Launceston RSL, Madam President. Their comment was similar. I made contact with the National Servicemen's Association, Launceston Branch, of which I am a member. Their position is identical to those other clubs.

The Darebin RSL in Victoria is very strong in its opposition to the holidays. It is included, and people can pick it up and have a look at it themselves.

Businesses throughout the State have also rejected the notion of the holiday. I have commented on that and the reasons for it, and that is the extreme cost they will incur as a result of it.

There are a couple of documents I want to refer to. I thought the editorial in the Examiner on 21 October, shortly after the discussion in this Chamber last year on this matter, was a very good one. It was very apt and I want to quote some parts of it. It was by Barry Prismall, the Deputy Editor at Launceston, and I quote:

'Funny how the troops landing at Gallipoli on the first Anzac Day in 1915 did so on a Sunday, and probably spent the Monday with their heads down as bullets rained on them from steep cliffs.

Nobody in the trenches got the Monday off.

Almost 900 diggers died and almost 20,000 were wounded during the eight- month Gallipoli campaign….

The point is, Anzac Day is Anzac Day - April 25. It is not the next day or the day before….

Nobody cares about the substitute day off because it will have no significance.

It's just an excuse for a long weekend.

Even more bizarre is the plan in 2011 to have another substitute holiday because

Anzac Day falls on Easter Monday….

It is perfectly legitimate for State Parliament to debate and make decisions about whether we stay ahead of other states on the number of public holidays we have, or come into line. It is a significant debate because worthless public holidays demean the ones we value highly and celebrate, like Christmas Day and Good Friday.

However, it is offensive for politicians to stand up in Parliament and cite a wartime tragedy as a rationale for legislating changes to public holiday quotas.'

That was part of his letter on that day. Another letter was published by the present editor of the Examiner - he was Deputy Editor at the time he wrote the previous comment - in the Sunday Examiner on 25 April 2010, where he makes very similar comments. Madam President, the editorial in today's Mercury is a very good one. I ask that members have a look at that if they have an opportunity. I think some copies have been provided and I thank the member for Pembroke for bringing it to my attention and ensuring that I read it. I am thinking about whether or not I should read it into the Hansard.

Mr Wing - Certainly the last paragraph you should.

Mr DEAN - You are right, absolutely. It is critical that I read the last paragraph into the Hansard, Madam President.

Mr Gaffney - You could just table it.

Mr DEAN - I could table it, and perhaps that is the easiest way in the circumstances but Mr Wing wishes that I read the last paragraph, Madam President, and I will quote that:

'MLCs who voted against it were unrepentant. Ivan Dean said: "It's not a holiday, it's about remembering those who made the ultimate sacrifice."

He was right then and such sentiments are still right now.'

I do not deviate from that at all. It is a good article, Madam President, so I seek leave to table that document, as I have been asked.

Mr Parkinson - What's the article? I'm not against it but I'm just not clear, for the purpose of Hansard, exactly what's being tabled.

Mr DEAN - I am tabling the Editor's report in today's Mercury, dated Wednesday 17 November. The heading is 'Missing the point' -

Mr Parkinson - I understand what you're doing now.

Mr DEAN - and 'Missing the point' has identified to the Government that they are missing the point of what this is all about and they have missed the point, right enough - strongly missed it. They haven't considered it at all.

Leave granted.

Mr DEAN - As a returned serviceman, Madam President, who saw active service in Borneo and Malaya, as a returned peacekeeper with the United Nations Organisation, serving in the Mediterranean and Cyprus - an island, as we would all know, torn between the Greeks and the Cypriots at war for an eternity - and as a 35-year career police officer who saw much aggression, murder, rape, and body mutilation, I cannot still fully comprehend the sacrifices made by our Gallipoli diggers. Those who formed part of an allied expedition that set out to capture the Gallipoli Peninsula, to open the way to the Black Sea for the allied navies. That was a conflict giving birth to the reasons for Anzac Day.

To support this bill will be to reduce Anzac Day to simply another holiday. Anzac Day is a day of remembrance or commemoration. A day we honour and remember with strong feeling those who served, and probably more importantly, those who died. Those who paid the extreme sacrifice serving you and this country in war. They made this country the great place that it is. They neither asked for nor took a holiday fighting the battle. They would be horrified to think there are some who now want to use their sacrifices as a reason for a holiday, simply because Anzac Day falls on a Sunday and/or on the Easter Monday.

Easter Tuesday is an interesting point I want to make. Easter Tuesday is already a public holiday for many banks, State employees and for many people. What is likely to happen now that everybody would be given a holiday on an Easter Tuesday, if this bill got through. What are the people going to say, Madam President, who already have a public holiday on Easter Tuesday? How are they going to react to it? I would suggest they are not going to react very well and to make the point, Madam President, I quote from an article in the Examiner on 18 October of this year:

'Unions Tasmania welcomed the bill.

However, unions warned the government that many Tasmanian workers receive a public holiday on Easter Tuesday, an entitlement the current bill does not protect.'

What is going to happen next? The unions are going to come along and say, for those people, 'We want the Wednesday off'. That is going to happen. Of course it is going to happen.

Ms Forrest - No, they're going to say they want the private sector to have the Tuesday, not the public sector. That's the difference.

Mr DEAN - I do not know about that, I think they are saying they want those others to have the Wednesday as well. That is the way I interpret it.

Mr Wilkinson - I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. I don't think that would occur.

Mr DEAN - I do not know but that is what they are saying - give them the whole week off, give them a week, for goodness' sake, do not worry about it.

Mr Wilkinson - Work on the weekends and have the weeks off.

Mr DEAN - New Zealanders were our comrades, the Kiwis, a huge part of Anzac. They hold this day as sacrosanct and have maintained their strong position on Anzac Day standing alone. In fact, in 2003 New Zealand went through a process that they referred to as 'Mondayised public holidays' where they transfer public holidays falling on a weekend to the Monday.

On my advice it is significant that they did not include Anzac Day in that Mondayising of public holidays. If they did I have not been able to get the information.

I was going to quote from a letter I have that was written by my uncle on the Kokoda Track. It is significant in this debate, in my view, because it identifies very clearly what the diggers went through, what they put up with, that we should remember them on the 25th April, Anzac Day. The letter is quite gruesome in places.

I have referred to parts of it in lectures I have given in relation to Kokoda and I do not think I will probably read any of it. Suffice to say that he went through, as his mates and colleagues did, sheer hell. Eating human flesh was a common thing. Lying next to a dead comrade was a common thing for them for days on end. It is just incredible when you read through some of the history and background of what these people did.

Two thousand diggers were killed on the Kokoda Track; 3 500 wounded -

Ms Thorp - 'Trail' isn't it? My dad says 'Trail'.

Mr DEAN - It is not a trail and let me correct this now. It is not a trail. If anybody refers to it as a trail to the Australian digger they get quite hostile and upset.

Ms Thorp - Well, my great uncle Bill was a veteran of New Guinea and Burma and he calls it the Kokoda Trail.

Mr DEAN - 'Trail' is an American word.

Mr Wilkinson - My old man did as well.

Ms Thorp - Yes. It was common parlance.

Mr DEAN - It is an American word, it is not an Australian word, and it is referred to as the Kokoda Track by the diggers.

Ms Thorp - Trail.

Mr DEAN - And in all the books you read on it.

Mr Parkinson - I think that is from your Johnny-come-latelys.

Ms Thorp - Yes, the people who would really know about it say 'Trail'.

Mr DEAN - Madam President, I want to refer to a gentleman who is a veteran of the Kokoda Track and who was badly wounded on the Kokoda Track. In fact his name and details are referred to in a book I have recently read. He is now aged 90. He is a good friend of mine because of his service and my walking the Kokoda Track et cetera and he was on the Kokoda Track for a long period.

Mr Parkinson - My dad just referred to it as the Kokoda.

Madam PRESIDENT - We are not the Nomenclature Board here this afternoon, we are on statutory holidays so let us stay with statutory holidays instead of what a name really is. Thank you.

Mr DEAN - Madam President, when I referred this matter to him, and asked him what his thoughts were on it, this is what he said to me. 'Well is that what they want to use us for? We did not get the Monday off. What do you say about it? Are they going mad? It brings sad memories back. I do not like talking about it'.

In fact he dissolved into tears on the phone while he was talking to me about it and I felt terrible for having rung him and talked to him about it. Then he went on to say, 'Ivan, there are only 88 of the 39th left. We are thinning out and when I go it is 87'. He was extremely emotional, extremely upset.

I think I have said enough on this. My position is strong. It has not changed and it will not change. I do not have any real objection to the other part of the bill in relation to the Christmas and Boxing Day holiday. As I said, I have not had any approaches on that. I am in possession, as other members would be, of a myriad of letters and I have I think two letters only from people in this State who have written to castigate me and make all sorts of threats, wishing me harm and all those other things. If you read the press a great majority of it has been about the reasons that this holiday is not warranted and why we should not have it and the nonsensical background to it, et cetera.

In conclusion, I would urge honourable members to seriously consider this matter. It is a matter that the returned servicemen and the RSLs and all those who were involved do not support. I would suggest that you would have done your own homework on this and are quite appalled at really what is going on. I do not support the bill in its current form. I would certainly support one part of it, but not the second part relating to Anzac Day.

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