Mr DEAN ( Windermere ) - I would like to thank members for their contributions. I think it is very important that we do get an opportunity to air these reports and raise some of the important issues referred to within them. I want to touch on one or two of the issues that came up.

I am well aware of the tremendous amount of work that is put into doing an annual report. I worked in executive support for two years or three years as the officer in charge and had the responsibility of preparing and putting together these annual reports so I am well and truly aware of that. I am also well and truly aware of the fact that you must get the information in these reports as accurate as you can in all of the circumstances and part of that is the proofreading of them.

I am taking nothing away from the members who prepared these reports as I recognise their hard work but what I spoke of was some fairly basic errors that were in that 2007-08 report and some in the current one.

On page 47, which I had not picked up until it was raised by the member for Pembroke, there is a very interesting one. It relates to working with at risk youth and turning those at risk youth around. I echo the comment here that there is incredible difference in the numbers that are being assisted in the Launceston area. Children at risk in Launceston is a big issue, and probably the biggest in the State. A few years ago the greater majority of youth in Ashley were, unfortunately, from that area.

Ms Thorp - Through you, Madam President - I recently visited the Launceston Police Station and met with a sergeant whose name escapes me at the moment and the handful of younger constables that worked with him in the IAST. They are doing a wonderful job. I did undertake to take on notice the fact that there seems to be a much smaller number in the Northern District according to the report, and to get some information back.

Mr DEAN - I would appreciate that. Perhaps it could be the way in which it has been recorded but there could be another explanation for it. I find it extremely difficult to accept that only that number of youth were being supported in that area because it is a big issue. Launceston City Council are always being criticised for failing to put sufficient money, funds and support into assisting youth at risk and trying to put them back on the right track. Here we have a body of people working in this area with a very poor return, if you relate it to the other areas around the State. There has to be some other explanation.

Ms Thorp - Through you, Madam President - you can read statistics in many ways. Seventeen may mean there were only 17 children who caused an incident in the area, but rather than our jumping to conclusions I think I should get you a factual response.

Mr DEAN - Wouldn't it be wonderful if that were the case. We have 67 in the Western District, 78 in the Southern District and 88 in the Eastern District. Unfortunately I do not think it could be right.

Ms Thorp - We will get you some information.

Mr DEAN - The honourable member for Launceston raises volunteer policing. I think this is an important issue, and even more important now with the way our budgets are and with the economy of this State. There will be an even greater call for police to be provided with assistance in carrying out their duties. When police are providing a service and have provided a service it is very difficult to pull back from that. People then start and see that as being let down. They see that as impacting in the wrong way on them and they are not really prepared to accept it. I think that there is a time to look at volunteer policing. There is a place in the police service for volunteers; there is no doubt about that. We used them almost de facto once but we do not now. We used them in the monitoring of the cameras, for instance; the surveillance cameras could have been almost de facto-type volunteer police. We use them in neighbourhood watches and so on, with people in those areas, virtually in that role. I think there are places in the police service where volunteer police would be a great support and quite obviously they would provide economic relief for a government.

I think, honourable Minister, it was you who said that the cut in police would occur in community policing.

Ms Thorp - No, I never said that.

Mr DEAN - Somebody raised that because it was in the paper.

Ms Thorp - There was a newspaper article referring to something, but I was actually talking about human services. I was misquoted.

Mr Aird - Another newspaper article? Oh no, it couldn't be.

Mr DEAN - Madam President, I am very sorry if I have upset the honourable member for Derwent, or wherever it is that he represents now.

Mr Aird - You will find out in a minute.

Mr DEAN - I should not have asked those fox questions this morning because I knew very well it would get him offside with me again starting the new year. I am sorry about that, I did not really want to upset him, but there is a place in Tasmania Police Service for volunteer policing.

With regard to violence in community, the public's perception of violence in the community is not the same as the Government's. The public perception is that it is a fairly violent place out there. Perception to the perceiver is reality, so it is a matter of trying to get on top of that and trying to let the public know that it is not as bad as they think it is, or that things are being done to try to get over the top of it all.

Mr Parkinson - I do not know about Launceston, but people don't see Hobart as being a violent place.

Mr DEAN - They certainly do in Launceston.

Madam PRESIDENT - We are closing debate, not restarting it - between the north and the south - so let's just finish it.

Mr DEAN - I am just going on a figure that is raised.

Mr Aird - There is another newspaper article that covers it.

Mr DEAN - The Fortescue was mentioned and I do not want to go into that but I think it was mentioned it would be some sort of protection or barrier or something, wouldn't it - a quip was made that it will probably be ballast in the next one that is built. That is where the Fortescue will finish up.

Alcohol consumption in police premises was raised. I just brushed over that. I did not really refer to it in police premises so it was taken a little out of context with what I was saying but -

Ms Thorp - Madam President, I could not see any other connection between you talking about it and in terms of the police report, if that is not what you meant.

Mr DEAN - But, Minister, you raised it and I just want to say this: I have no problem with alcohol on police premises and having been there and having consumed alcohol on police premises I support it because police are not in the position of having a friendly atmosphere in many cases when they go to a public place to drink and most of them do want to unwind at the end of the day. It may well be that earlier in that night they may have arrested or charged a person on the other side of the bar with an offence so it creates problems. So there is a need for police to have a drinking place where they feel safe and secure and without being tormented and being abused, et cetera. I support it and I have no problem with the drinking in police premises. You have indicated the controls that are being used so that certainly is accepted.

I would like to have heard you say, Minister, that the policing of drugs on drivers will be considered.

Ms Thorp - Through you, Madam President - I remind you that you will have your opportunity at budget Estimates. This is actually a noting of a report.

Mr DEAN - I will raise it again but I think there is an issue there that needs referring further. I thank members for their input and I think it has been a worthwhile discussion. A number of issues have come out and I would hope that some of those issues are taken on board and I would like to see some of those issues being considered further. I commend the motion to the Council.

Report noted.

Tuesday 15 March 2011

DEPARTMENT OF POLICE AND EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT ANNUAL REPORT

Mr DEAN ( Windermere - Motion) - Madam President, I move -

That the annual report of the Department of Police and Emergency Management 2009-2010 be considered and noted.

In so moving, I commence by saying very clearly that policing is a very dangerous occupation and I think that has never been more evident than in the last two or three months with the incident at Westbury and also the incident the other night at Beechford, which demonstrated the precarious nature of policing and just what it is all about.

Once again I want to put on the record that we have without doubt the best police service in this country and we have a very, very professional police service.

My son says he needs to keep reminding me of just how important the police service is to this State but I keep reminding him that I was also a member of the service for 35 years so we both know just how difficult the job is.

Ms Rattray - How many years of service is he up to right now?

Mr DEAN - He would have done about six or seven years now, I would think, and he enjoys it. He thinks it is a great occupation and he is doing well.

Madam President, it is important to have a look at these annual reports as we move forward and it is important that we scrutinise them. Scrutinising them closer to the time at which they are released would be better but unfortunately these reports were released fairly close to the end of last year and finding a convenient time to do it was not all that easy, which is why it is brought on now.

I find that most of these reports bring out the good stuff. There is very seldom any information in these reports that identifies with bad, ordinary or questionable service or other major issues. They are normally not in these reports. These reports are about the good things, closely vetted before they come out - you would hope - but they are not that closely vetted at all. In fact in this report you will find nothing in relation to the Government's tardiness or recalcitrant behaviour - whatever you like to refer to it as - relative to the police in courts in the Launceston area, a matter which has been going on for 10 or 15 years. The matter of removing those police has been significant. I could find none of that in this report and that sort of thing concerns me. I would have thought it would at least have rated a mention somewhere.

There is not a lot in there about the PV Fortescue. There is not a lot in there about alcohol and its impact, particularly its impact on some of the police and some of the other issues regarding that. There is none of that in this report. It is important to take note of what you know and have read and seen through that previous year when you interpret these reports. You need to understand that.

Ms Thorp - You are not actually noting the report; you are noting the things that are not in the report.

Mr DEAN - I am noting the report. It is significant, when you look at these reports, to understand what is not in there. I simply raise it as an issue.

Ms Thorp - I just wanted to be very clear where you were coming from.

Mr DEAN - I would have thought it was reasonably clear, with great respect to you, Minister.

The organisation profiles, which appear early in the report, is an interesting area. A number of questions are raised when you start comparing the figures and comparing them with previous years. As a matter of interest, in 2008-09 southern and northern districts each had 141 689 people - an identical number of people in those two districts; that is what the report says. Is this coincidence or mistake? In 2009-10 the Southern District had 143 113, an increase of 1 424, whereas the Northern District had 141 434, a decrease of 255. Again, these are questionable figures.

The Eastern District is really interesting; 140 275 in 2008-09 -

Ms Thorp - Through you, Madam President - which page are you on?

Mr DEAN - Pages 14 and 15. The Eastern District in those periods is really interesting - 140 275 in 2008-09 and in 2009-10 it was 106 362 - a decrease of 33 913. Questionable. Interesting. The Western District had an increase of about 1 291 that might have been right or might have been close to the mark, I do not know. These figures are so interesting and appear so obviously wrong that I did some further research and consulted our very efficient library staff and they too experienced problems and much frustration trying to decipher the numbers in these reports. They then made contact with the Police Academy library to seek some clarification of the statistical data contained in the reports and were advised that some errors had occurred in the reporting of the data.

They acknowledged that. I was told the underlying problem with the published data was that the annual report design was outsourced - I do not know why - and the proofreading missed these fairly obvious mistakes. I refer to this because it is on these district profile numbers that police numbers areas are based. They are pretty important figures. It simply shows that you cannot necessarily accept the information from an annual report without some research of your own.

The errors with regard to these figures were easy to spot, they simply did not add up, and given that I had a reference point from which to assess them they leapt from the page at me and should have done to others. There has been no correction made so those reports still stand. The 2008-09 report still stands as accurate and correct as does the one released this year.

I do not see that as being a good position. I have to wonder what other figures are wrong. I imagine there are other errors, but without obvious reference points it is difficult to check the accuracy of a lot of these figures. There is an idiom that might apply in this instance and it goes something like this - we have all heard it many times - there are lies, damn lies and then there are statistics. I think that is evident from some of these reports that we read.

Mr Wing - How would you categorise those mistakes in that context?

Mr DEAN - Probably mistakes - I do not think that they would be lies - or I would categorise them as statistics. I am not quite sure. Every possible way to decrease the number of reported incidents is used and this is another area that I want to go into. At best a careful massaging of the circumstances occurs to try to keep the number of statistical data as low as is possible.

The way statistics are used and presented today does not mean too much as in may cases they are not an accurate indicator of what is actually happening out there. You are probably saying, what is the point of this and I have already told you - population has a significant bearing on the number of police and where they are located.

Police statistics are calculated on reported data and only data that is recorded by police. On the evidence that we have we know that only about one in four or five crimes are reported. In sex offences probably fewer crimes are reported. That is what the people will tell us that have a close understanding what is going on out there. They will tell us that probably even less than one in four crimes are reported in relation to sexual matters.

On page five of this report there is a table identifying the downs and ups of crime but nowhere does it say that these figures are calculated on the crimes reported or recorded by police. I think that is reasonable; they cannot record and report on crimes that they do not know about.

At the bottom of page 5 when talking about offences against a person it should clarify that it makes reference to recorded offences. We know that recorded offences are probably about a quarter of the crimes committed. I do not hold police responsible for this because, as I said, it is the people out there who will not report crime for whatever reasons. We know why they will not report sexual offences - because of embarrassment, because of the traumas that they have to relive through all the processes that are necessary to bring a matter to a conclusion. There are lots of reasons for it.

[11.30 a.m.]
I have had a number of people complain to me, Madam President, as others would have had; reporting an offence or an assault is not easy. When reporting a sexual offence you are normally told that you will have to go to court to give the evidence, but that is not quite the case. You do not always have to go to court; it just depends on the circumstances as they unravel, but it is not made easy for a person to report.

I know a businessman in Launceston who says he is aware of at least 13 to 15 cases of serious assault where complaints were not made to police. That evidence was given to a committee that I am currently involved in, the violence committee. We know that there are serious crimes happening that are not being reported.

You have police with the statistical data showing a certain level of crime but the public have a vastly different perception of the situation.

I raised the subject of police in courts before. It is not in this report but I think it ought to be because it has been an ongoing issue for a long time. It is an absolute disgrace on this current Government; they ought not be proud of their position in relation to it. That matter has been going on for 15 years or longer. When I was at Launceston it was a big issue because of the sheer extravagance of having a police officer in a court babysitting witnesses and offenders when it ought to have been the job of another person such as a security officer, as happens in Hobart. There is absolutely no excuse for it at all.

During the state of the State address the Premier spoke about all the good times that we have just come through. One would have thought that this would have been addressed through those good times, but it was not.

Mr Wilkinson - I think the problem is going to be exacerbated now as a result of not taking recruits. That means we will have fewer people and they will have to get away from manning the doors and be out there manning the streets.

Mr DEAN - Absolutely.

Ms Thorp - It is only a delay of one intake, that is all that has happened to date, so don't scaremonger.

Mr DEAN - It will never be so evident as now that those police should be out on the street. With a recruit course not going through, police through natural attrition will leave the police service through the year and there will be an absence of police in many of these areas until such time as a recruit course starts up again. We know the period of time it takes to put recruits through the Academy and to get them back out on the street. It is not just a simple matter of cancelling a recruit course.

Ms Forrest - There are about 50 graduating this month.

Mr DEAN - Yes, there are, in a few days. Those 50 will be taken up very quickly through attrition and other things that will be occurring.

Ms Thorp - Different manning levels are required in different areas of the State.

Mr DEAN - That is right. I am glad that you raised that, Minister, because that is never so evident as in Launceston where there is a fairly high crime rate, there is a fairly high street offence rate and other offences as well. I am now of the view, and I think the police are as well unfortunately, that it is never likely to happen under this Government, and that is a sad situation.

I will not read some of the other comments that I had on that, Madam President, because the Minster for Police would not be all that happy with me.

The Police Association of Tasmania have been very outspoken on this and why would they not be when it concerns the safety of their members and getting the right number of police out on the streets. More police on the streets in Launceston will mean fewer people being assaulted violently, fewer admissions to the hospitals and safer streets and roads. That is what it adds up to at the end of the day. And fewer deaths.

I refer to pages 22 and 86, where you will find references to State Service personnel. I am having some difficulty in understanding some of those figures. The department reduced State Service numbers by 25 positions, during the same period there were 50 separations, permanent staff, and 16 separations fixed term. Then there were 16 permanents and 34 fixed-term commencements, so we had 50 new starters and 66 leavers - a difference there of 16 fewer employees. Does this also include the 25 personnel that were made redundant - page 22 - or are they additional to the 16? There are lots of questions and issues coming up there and I seek clarification on that.

In the future there are likely to be more of these people made redundant who will lose their positions. What most people say is that if the person goes, the job must go as well, which is normally not the case. The position has to be picked up by somebody else so somebody else shares that workload. That is the issue that normally surfaces in regards to making personnel redundant and removing them from a position.

On page 84 there is reference to police numbers. In 2008-09 there were 1 234.21 FTEs and in 2009-10 there were 1 219.66 FTEs - 14.55 fewer. That occurs as a result of recruit courses - when they are coming in and out - and natural attrition and a number of other things.

I wrote this before the state of the State address and intended to ask the minister if any courses would be deferred this year. I can answer that for the minister now. Yes, there will be.

Ms Thorp - I thought that I had already referred to it myself.

Mr DEAN - Are you saying you do not want to defer it?

Ms Thorp - Didn't I just say that we deferred the March one?

Mr DEAN - You did, but I thought that you were going to say there that you did not want to defer it, that you had rethought the situation. Secondments are referred to on page 21. What is the position regarding the 13 police on secondment to the Hobart Airport? Is this a full-time secondment or does it come to an end? What is the position there? The minister might be able to answer that question. There are 13 Tasmanian police that are on the list that are in another position at the airport.

There are another seven on secondment to the international deployment group in the Solomon Islands. When you start adding these up that is 20 police already taken out of the service into other positions. Do Tasmania Police get additional police officers to cover all of those positions?

One would hope that they would be given additional numbers. I suspect those police who are on service and duty at the airport are paid by the airport owners or by the Federal Police. I would suspect that that would be the case if they are serving and working there.

Promoting health and wellbeing is also mentioned in the report. This issue has been raised in the press recently regarding the position of police officers and their health and it is interesting that the police service has a position of retaining fit and capable police officers in their service and I have always felt that this was an oxymoron because through the academy there was a reasonable amount of emphasis put on being fit, agile, being capable of carrying out the duties and functions of a police officer but once you walked out of the academy doors, nothing further happened. Police officers then went back to probably what they were used to - their prior lifestyle and many, unfortunately, did not have a physically active lifestyle and that is demonstrated in some of the things that are now happening. In actual fact, there was a comment made in the paper recently and I quote this statement made in the Examiner -

Ms Thorp - If you are referring to what I think you are, I think it was very rude and I hope you are not going to dignify it.

Mr DEAN - I thought it was fairly rude too but it related to a very serious situation. In fact it related to a kidnapping situation in Launceston, a recent one, so I suppose it is not surprising that the people were upset and frustrated at what was happening or what they thought was happening. This is what one of them said, and I quote:

'Many of the police involved in the manhunt were obviously overweight, some obese and not at all suited for the physical trials associated with a manhunt of any type that would facilitate running in any capacity.'

I think that was a comment made by a member of the family that was closely involved in that very serious incident. I think that is a very important part of policing: retaining police in a physical condition that enables them to do their work safely and in the best interests of all people that are involved in it.

High visibility police cars, page 29, for the minister's reference point: in my mind there is no doubt that this strategy has been beneficial to promoting safer motoring. I do not think anybody in this House would dispute that nor probably anybody in the State would dispute it. I think it has been a wonderful strategy by Tasmania Police because we know very well that the more visual police are out there, whether it be in cars, whether it be in uniform or high visibility jackets, it has a very sobering impact and effect on people, whether they are driving or walking around the street. I am of the view that is certainly a good strategy and would support that.

Madam President, I make this statement: I am of the opinion that if all of the money that is injected into the speed camera operations were taken away from that and put into putting more police on the roads in these marked vehicles or on the street there would be a much better result achieved. Our roads would be much safer than with what speed cameras have done, although they have been credited with providing some safety and I am not saying they have not.

Mr Parkinson - Are you advocating more fixed cameras?

Mr DEAN - I am advocating more fixed cameras. I support the fixed cameras and I have said that before. I think that is a great strategy and I am advocating for more money to be put into getting more police out on the roads in these very highly identifiable cars and on the streets in highly identifiable uniforms.

Mr Wing - It is pleasing to see a significant increase in the number of police on the roads in the last 12 months or so.

Mr Finch - Did you travel down this morning?

Mr DEAN - No, I travelled down last night.

Mr Finch - I would have had seven police cars travelling in the opposite direction.

Ms Rattray - There were two on pursuit yesterday afternoon but not of me.

[11.45 a.m.]
Mr DEAN - The member for Launceston makes a very important point that there are a lot more police on the roads now and I think that can be credited with, in fact, the decrease in the number of fatal crashes and serious crashes occurring, and we would hope that that continues to be the case now that we have those police out there.

Mr Wing - It's a very significant deterrent and a very important asset to road safety.

Mr DEAN - It is. There is no doubt about that.

Madam President, I just wanted to briefly comment on the complaints against police that are referred to starting on page 32 of the report. It identifies complaints and the fact that complaints have dropped off over the years, and that is wonderful because police very clearly deal with people in many instances where the making of a complaint is real, even though they are doing their job. It is good to see that this is happening. As I said, we have police who are very highly trained.

What I want to say here is that the police often deal with people who have mental issues, who are impacted on by alcohol and/or by drugs, and to deal with those people is an enormous ask of any person, particularly of a police officer on his or her own. We recently had a matter at Burnie, and I am not going to go into any of the details in relation to that, where a very young person was involved, and the police had to make a decision on the spur of the moment as to what action they would take in the circumstances. I felt for the police officers involved there.

The only problem with the complaints is that we are not told what the complaints were about. We are told that there were a number of complaints in relation to criminal acts. In fact of all complaints made, 112 all up, 12 only related to criminal acts and seven related to off-duty incidents. It would be good in that report - and if it is there I did not pick it up - to identify what some of those complaints were about just to see where things are moving, and what areas are creating the concerns for police.

I suspect a number of complaints did relate to firearms, they probably did relate to capsicum spray matters, I do not know. It would be good to at least have some understanding of that. It would be wonderful if we had taser guns and maybe there might be a complaint or two against them, but I think the benefits to be derived from the use of taser guns would far outweigh any of the arguments there might be against the police service having them. It is appalling to think that the Tasmanian police service does not have access to taser guns in this day and age.

Ms Thorp - The police service doesn't want them, it is the union.

Mr DEAN - I would question that as well. I have not spoken to the police on this for some time, but I know going back to when I was there, there were questions being asked about the taser and whether or not it should be used. It was a weapon available to the police. I could not understand why they would not support it, because isn't it best to use less than lethal force? Isn't it best to use something that is less than lethal, as it were?

Mr Wing - It would be much better.

Mr DEAN - I would have thought it would be. To use a firearm could cause death and we know that. Tasers, of course, have been identified to have caused death, but there have been other medical reasons where that has occurred. But the situation is very clear that police officers' having resorted to the use of firearms ruins them virtually for the rest of their life. The police officers involved in these recent incidents, Madam President, I doubt if they will ever get over it, in either instance or any in other instance a police officer resorts to the use of a firearm. It is life-impacting and, as I said, extremely dangerous and here we have an opportunity. There is the taser out there. It is used by other police services.

Ms Thorp - It's used here.

Mr DEAN - It is used here?

Ms Thorp - By Special Operations.

Mr DEAN - Are they the only ones who have it?

Ms Thorp - As far as I'm aware.

Mr DEAN - I do not know where it was the other night but if it is here and being used it needs to be distributed where other police have access to it. I do not know what is happening but the Police Association have been very vocal in relation to this matter in the last couple of days. It is a tough job.

With regard to capsicum spray, Madam President, it is all very well for armchair critics to castigate police for using capsicum spray. Very clearly, Madam President, they have never dealt with an irate, out of hand, 13 or 14-year-old boy. I have, on a number of occasions, and if I had had capsicum spray I would have used it. It is certainly better than having to use physical force where other injuries can occur.

Most members would have read the recent Queensland newspaper article about a 14-year-old youth, unarmed, I understand, who attacked and seriously injured a 36-year-old off-duty police officer. The officer suffered a fractured skull and was hospitalised for a long period and will probably never be the same again. The people who make these statements really, in my view, have not lived. They really do not know exactly what is going on out there and what police have to put up with from time to time.

Public order incidents, page 34, referred to in the document covers a range of public safety offences - public place assaults, vandalism, licensing, fighting, abusive language, noise and vehicle-related offences. Madam President, 99 per cent would have had some involvement with these things that would concern most of us. It is an area of policing that is increasing, mainly in vehicle complaints and I suspect much of this would have something to do with hooning.

I do not accept the police figures on assaults and certainly not public place assaults and I previously referred to the person who knew of many assaults being committed. I do not accept the increase just in vehicle offences - I think the increase would be in other offences fitting into that category. However, it is encouraging that public order incidents are to be a focus of police attention this financial year.

How will that occur? The police in Launceston have babysitters in courts so they cannot afford to get more police out on the beat. As a result of the cuts that are going to occur they will probably have fewer police than they have currently out there on the streets. I would like to know how that focus is going to occur and what extra policing there will be in accordance with the current year's annual report and what has happened to date because the financial year is almost over. It is encouraging to see that there will be that focus.

Since 2006-07 the number of offences in this area has increased by 2 334. These public order offences have increased each year, Madam President. Between 2008-09 and 2009-10 the increase was a staggering 1 588 offences. That is a rather big increase in those types of offences that really concern the public. The problem is that some of these areas do not attract similar publicity to speeding and drink driving offences and they are not revenue raising and therefore, in my opinion, it is an area that has been neglected over a long period of time. Madam President, Victoria went through similar processes about two years ago. The Victorian police suddenly realised that they were losing control of the streets in Melbourne and took action to try to get on top of that. Those members who have been in Melbourne in the last 12 to 18 months would have noticed the extra police that are walking the streets and driving around Melbourne.

The police are walking around in groups of three or four or more to get control of the streets so that people can safely be involved in their lawful activities.

I refer to page 35 of the report, violence in public places. I have trouble with some of the figures there. I am not quite sure if crime has picked up in recent times but I would like to look at the current statistics. There is not a paper that you read or news that you listen to where there is not violent crime reported. It has been a very regular occurrence over the past few months. The written media is full of it.

Ms Thorp - They sure are because it has declined significantly over a five-year period.

Mr DEAN - I am just saying what is happening right at this moment -

Ms Thorp - I am referring to the same thing.

Mr DEAN - We are seeing a lot of it in the papers, armed hold-ups, violent assaults -

Ms Thorp - An 18 per cent reduction on the same time last year. Who would you rather believe - the police statistics or the muppetry?

Mr DEAN - I hark back to the statement I made earlier, that unfortunately a lot of offences and crime are not reported. That is one of the issues, in my opinion, to try to do something about. I think that if we could get more reporting there would be more investigating, there would be more arrests being made and that would be a deterrent. We need to concentrate on that area.

On the subject of violence in the streets, we have the PORT team, which is the Public Order Response Team, that operates in the streets spasmodically as required. People might recall that in early December last year there was a police blitz on a weekend with extra police patrolling the streets keeping an eye out for antisocial behaviour and drunken offences.

In that weekend in Launceston that body made 37 arrests. The greatest number of arrests in the State was in Launceston. Unfortunately it leads the way in some areas where it should not lead the way. I am not proud of that and I do not think that the member for Launceston would be proud of that either.

It is interesting that you have a special blitz on this type of behaviour and you have that many arrests. What is happening the rest of the time? Are these offences occurring without apprehension? It would be highly unlikely, I would think, that these offences occurred just on the weekend that this special police operation was advertised and was underway. You would have thought that offenders would have been on their best behaviour, but that clearly was not the case. It makes you wonder what is happening the rest of the time.

[12.00 p.m.]
We have been talking about the community perception of safety throughout my contribution. At page 36 the report refers to community perceptions of safety. The statistics tell us that we are above the national average in the areas measured under this category in the right way. Of people walking about after dark 65 per cent feel safe; the national average is 60 per cent. If we are doing things anywhere near right, we should have the best results because we are a smaller State and one would think it would be easier for policing. I do not think 65 per cent is really anything to be proud of. I would have liked to see that figure much higher. I would have thought that if you were walking around after dark you should feel perfectly safe and that figure should have been up around 80 or 90 per cent - that would be a wonderful figure to have. Unfortunately, it is a relatively low figure.

In the survey that was used to establish and identify these figures, members of the public were asked how worried they were about becoming a victim of assault in a public place. Thirty-three per cent responded in the affirmative; that is, they feared violence. That is one in three people. Again, in my view, that is a reasonably poor position. This figure would be much higher if it referred specifically to the night hours and the people surveyed were only those that were out and about at night. I suspect that this survey took place across the board with everybody and anybody, not a specific group of people.

On page 37 there is reference to our select committee on violence, in relation to violence and violent conduct in the community. The police service would no doubt be looking forward to the result of that inquiry as I think many others are as well. There will be some fairly strong recommendations coming out of that report. The chairman is not here but I hope we can hand that report down later on this year; I am not quite sure when.

I want to refer to the Public Order Response Team again and the table on page 38. Things do not quite add up when you start looking at some of these issues. We talked about the special police blitz that took place and the number of arrests that occurred in Launceston - the highest in the State - but if you go across to the figures in relation to PORT and take liquor infringement notices for a start, the northern area police had 294 in the Launceston area for the year, the south had 708, eastern district had 677 and western district had 358. So the Launceston area had 294, the lowest of the lot. Could that mean we do not have as many people involved in liquor and drinking liquor under age and where they should not be or does it mean that we are not up there policing it in the right way because that special police blitz returned a fairly heavy position in relation to Launceston. When you start looking at some of these figures, you wonder why some of these things are happening. Either northern district is exceptionally good or there is not a great emphasis placed on liquor offences.

In this report some Crime Stoppers figures are quite interesting. In almost all categories Crime Stoppers have gone up, so a lot of these things do not correlate with less crime and fewer incidents occurring. Crime Stoppers have gone up and core figures cannot be easily followed because the table differs from year to year but when you extrapolate all the figures available and then start looking at the quotas that are still set in some areas, most remain similar or rise, but we are told it is a much safer environment and people are far more law abiding. As I said, that position does not really equate with all of the other statistical data we have been given. It is difficult to understand it.

I notice that there was a huge jump in Crime Stoppers rewards paid out last year, from $2 700 to $13 250; perhaps there were bigger payments made for information received, but it is quite a significant increase.

The minister has referred to a drop-off in crime over the period and the Mercury report of 25 January identified where crime is going and the decreases across the State. It is certainly heartening that that is demonstrated by police data. However, the increase in home and business burglaries would be a concern to all property owners and businesses. I suspect that the police would be targeting that and looking at strategies to try to get on top of that.

It is interesting in that same report; I take my hat off to the Acting Deputy Commissioner of Police at the time, who said that there would not be an emphasis on traffic infringement notices and revenue-raising offences, et cetera. He made a pretty strong statement there. It is interesting because last year's Budget identified a significant increase that would occur in the area of infringement notices and traffic infringement notices, et cetera. It was going to increase drastically. The last Budget said revenue would increase by several million dollars - in fact $7 million to $33 million and it was even greater for 2011-12 - but here you have the Acting Deputy Commissioner of Police saying that that area will not be targeted. He is a very brave man. I would be interested to see whether he has the support of his senior officer and whether or not he has the support of the Government. I thought it was a pretty good statement. I commend the Acting Deputy for his comment that revenue-raising ventures would not be targeted. That is a brave statement, as I said, and it will be interesting to see what happens as a result of it.

Reference is made again on page 44 to clearance rates and these are pretty good. At one stage in my police career where the clearance rate was very low; we were back in the high twenties, 30 per cent, whatever it was. It is now being said it is up to about 45 per cent and that is good. The greater that number is, the greater the deterrent is for those people who commit these offences and crimes.

According to the annual reports, there were 5 057 family violence incidents in 2008-09 and 4 798 in 2009-10. It is great to see it drop in that area because it is an insidious offence and we need to do everything we can to ensure that we stop this type of behaviour; it is certainly not acceptable. When you look at that area it is broken down into incidents under the Family Violence Act, argument incidents and restraint order attendances. I wonder why it is broken down into those areas? I suppose it looks better. What is the difference between an 'incident' and an 'argument incident'? Maybe there was no violence or threat of violence, just a friendly argument, I am not too sure. When you start looking at the number of domestic violence reports that have dropped, did that previously include those offences: the argument incident and the non-argument incident? Some of these statistics are quite baffling, to understand and see where they fit and how they relate to previous reports and tables. This is not easy.

Drug offences, as with many other categories in this report, this category differs from the way it was written and reported in 2008-09; there are differences there again. I do not know whether it is deliberately done, Madam President, or whether -

Ms Thorp - Are you suggesting the change in style is done to obfuscate?

Mr DEAN - What I am saying is - and I thought it was fairly clear - that where changes occur it should be explained why and its impact on previous statistical data. If you change the way you are recording something this year and it is significantly different from last year, you need to explain why and you need to explain why the differences are there because you will find in most cases that the changes are better, if I can use that expression, when it comes to the recording of offences and so on, it looks better. It does. You look at it yourself, Minister. When you get the time, have a close look at it. I would like there to be an explanation of where these changes occur. I am not saying there should not be changes - life goes on, as it does, but we need to understand why.

Drug offences appear to be on the decline with Drug Investigation Services proceeding against 745 people and uniformed police proceeding against another 1 946 people. That is a total of 2 691 and probably the tip of the iceberg. Over 2008-09 there was a total of, I think, 1 767 people charged, involving the DIS personnel and uniformed police. Drugs are a major issue for all of us and I wonder just how far it will go and what the future is in this area. There is still lots of talk about legalising marijuana. I do not think it will ever happen and I do not think it should happen but there are lots of things happening in this area and we have new drugs coming on the scene all the time. I read about another new drug that has come up, I think last week or the week before, and it just goes on and on.

Road safety, page 51 in this report: in the 2009-10 year we had that fateful day on 9 July you will all remember; I can remember sitting in this Chamber and our staff coming in and telling us that there has been another death or another two deaths, another three deaths, it just went on and on and on. I think the last report when we were in the Chamber at seven or eight or nine o'clock at night, whatever it was, came in with two further deaths near Mangalore. It was an horrific day. Even with those figures police were successful and all the other people involved in this area were successful in decreasing the number of fatalities and serious injury crashes in that year, so it was a good result.

As I said before, if you put speed camera expenditure into more police on the roads I am confident you will get some reductions. If you divide the lanes you will get reductions. I think the Midland Highway is a good example of that. I think if that were divided, there would certainly be fewer serious crashes and fewer fatalities. Make all drivers alcohol-free - I know I have a differing opinion from some other people in relation to this but I think if we had drivers alcohol-free, we would get reductions. With better learner-driver educational training you will get reductions. I think there are lots of things that can be done there and need to be targeted.

High-risk offences have been referred to separately on page 52 of the report: 268 high risk speeding offences were detected through the financial year. That is 268 irresponsible drivers doing 45 km/h and/or more above the speed limit. They are the ones that really do need targeting. They are the ones that really are creating a big part of the danger that there currently is and we should concentrate on this. I have said this time and time again, that it is all very well to concentrate on the low-speed areas, it is not in the 50-km/h zones where you get many fatalities. I do not know how many fatalities we have had in those areas - I suspect there have been one or two - or serious vehicle crashes. It is out there on the open roads that we should be targeting. I have said many times that the police in those instances should be rewarded. They still have some of those targets that they have to achieve, and 'quotas' for want of another word, but I would have thought that catching a speeder out there doing 45-50 km/h over the speed limit would be worth 20 or 30 or 40 people exceeding the speed limit in a 50-km/h speed zone.

[12.15 p.m.]
Drug-driving enforcement, page 57 of the report: Drugs is the one area that I believe has not been given sufficient police time. Drug-drivers may well be as prolific on our roads as those affected by alcohol, who are charged with DUI. We know there is a direct cost of about $50 to test these people by police - so be it. This cost should have no bearing at all on the right of police to carry out the roadside test. Police should be commended and encouraged to test drivers for drugs in exactly the same way as they are to breath-test drivers for alcohol.

According to this report, 252 oral fluid tests for drugs in this State in one year is deplorable, in my view. That would not even work out at one test per operational police officer a year. This was an increase of 41 in the previous year. This area is neglected, in my opinion. Cutting the road toll to lower numbers could be easily accomplished. Sure, there is a cost to it, but if you weigh that cost against that of a fatality, or probably more importantly, a seriously injured person, a paraplegic for instance, it would probably be less.

If you multiply 309 fatal serious injuries by the cost of each fatality, the total is about $1.7 million, I think we are told, and then by the cost of those seriously injured and requiring a lifetime of treatment and care it would come to perhaps $1 billion annually. That would certainly pay for a lot of road works on the Midland Highway and some of our other major highways.

In relation to the drug matter I want to quote from an article - I do not have a date but it was just prior to the last State election, it was taken from either the Telegraph or one of the other Victorian newspapers but I can identify it later on. I quote from this item in the paper:

'Drug drivers caught at 'concerning' rate

MELBOURNE -

Australia's world-first roadside drug tests are catching drivers out at three times the rate of the long-established booze buses.

Four months into Victoria's year-long trial of the drug test, police say that one in every 73 motorists is testing positive to drugs.

Police Minister Tim Holding said the ratio of drivers returning positive results was three times higher than for those breath-tested for alcohol ...

'It took us 30 years to change attitudes about drink driving', he said. 'We are going to have to tackle the same issues to bring about that cultural shift to say that driving with these sorts of illicit drugs in your system is not responsible.' '

If those sorts of results are being returned in Victoria you could assume reasonably that the rate here might not be quite as high as that perhaps - I do not know why it would not be, but probably not - but certainly high enough to warrant an escalation in the amount of work that is being put into detecting drug-drivers on our roads.

A lot more work needs to be done there. The other matter that I wish to touch on to conclude is the divisional headquarters refurbishment programs referred to in the annual report, in particular that of the Devonport police station, the Bellerive station and the Glenorchy station. But yet again, Devonport is now being put on hold. The Devonport police station is a disgusting building. As the officer in charge of that police station for two to three years I tried to get things to happen to the building then. I tried to get a change of the building then and tried to get a move from that building then. It was spoken about at the time and it has been ever since. The Government recognises now that they are a fairly ordinary working conditions for our police officers. For it to be put on hold and for stations like Bellerive and Glenorchy to go ahead before this station, I find difficult to understand because the Devonport police station certainly is older than the Glenorchy station. I was at Glenorchy when it was refurbished and rebuilt and the Bellerive station would have been a number of years after the Devonport station as well. Devonport station would be, without doubt, the oldest station. It certainly has had more makeovers than Elizabeth Taylor. It has been made over, it has been changed, they have taken rooms out, they have put rooms back in and it has just continually had changes made to it. For it now to be put on the backburner is absolutely disgraceful.

Ms Thorp - Who has put it on the backburner?

Mr DEAN - As I understand it, it is not proceeding at this present time. I understand there is a difficulty with the remand centre.

Ms Thorp - Are you talking about Devonport?

Mr DEAN - Devonport.

Ms Thorp - Are you talking about the project that was knocked back by the Public Works Committee?

Mr DEAN - I'm talking about the Devonport police station, the fact that it has been knocked back at this stage.

Ms Thorp - That was knocked back by the Public Works Committee?

Mr DEAN - That is right, it is not being proceeded with at this time.

Ms Thorp - That is not true.

Mr DEAN - Perhaps you can clarify that position.

Ms Thorp - I'm very happy to.

Mr DEAN - I congratulate the Public Works Committee on the decision they made in this case.

Ms Thorp - To hold up the Devonport police station?

Mr DEAN - No, to have a better police station.

Ms Thorp - How does that decision guarantee a better police station?

Mr DEAN - They will have a remand centre.

Ms Thorp - Says who?

Mr DEAN - Minister, with the greatest respect to you, you do not have a great deal of understanding of just how police do their work. When I was there more arrests were being made at Devonport than there were at Burnie, and I would be surprised if it still wasn't the case, but it might not be. It means travel from Devonport to Burnie or from Devonport to Launceston and at least two police officers on each occasion. By the time they get them in the vehicle, get the paperwork done and take them off to these remand centres, it would be at least four hours lost by two police officers. It would be interesting to know the amount of overtime and other rates that would be applicable to police officers in those situations. I will ask a question on that later on.

It is an extremely shortsighted view of this Government to have a police station built at Devonport without a remand centre. Once again I commend the senior police officer who was fairly outspoken about this during the Public Works Committee inquiry. He was very clear on his position in saying that it ought not be built unless it has a remand centre in it.

Ms Thorp - You have read the report, have you? I think you will find that the person you are referring to would be Assistant Commissioner Wilkinson and I think you need to read carefully what he said.

Mr DEAN - Maybe the report in the paper was wrong.

Ms Thorp - I think you should read the actual report rather than what goes into the newspaper and then you might have more capacity to be factual.

Mr DEAN - We often read these reports in the papers and unless there is some contradictory statement put in later on, you tend to want to accept it at times. I would have thought that if the paper had that so wrong you would have, or somebody on your behalf -

Mr Aird - Why don't you check things out for yourself? Why do you have to rely on someone else?

Mr DEAN - I have spoken to a number of police officers. I did do some checking.

Mr Aird - You've got consistent form on this all the way through.

Ms Thorp - You can guarantee, can you, when a refuting press statement is put out by the Department of Police that it will be printed? Don't be so na?ve. They are only interested in the bad news.

Mr DEAN - I am not being na?ve. What I am saying is that the Devonport police station needs to be built and it needs to be built now. It is a very difficult place for the police officers to work in and they deserve to have some very good amenities. Their job is hard enough without putting up with toilets that cannot be used, leaking, security and it is just a real mess there is no doubt about that.

Yes, it was Assistant Commissioner Phil Wilkinson. You are right.

Ms Thorp - I knew I was right because I read the report.

Mr DEAN - In the annual report it says that anticipated works would commence but obviously if it had not gone through all the processes -

Ms Thorp - It hadn't gone through the Public Works Committee and the Public Works Committee knocked it back, which is very disappointing.

Mr DEAN - It still had that process to go back. I was not there through the sitting but I understand what policing is like at Devonport and I understand what moving prisoners from one place to another does to policing in the area and the service that it provides to the public. The public suffer while these police are off the road.

Ms Thorp - If you would read the report properly you'll understand that the finances for the remand centre were not part of the PEM budget, they came from another agency. If that agency is not prepared to play it, what do you want me to do - not build a station at all?

Check your facts and you'll find that the funds come from a different agency of government.

Mr DEAN - I thought it was originally planned for the remand centre to be built at the time and -

Ms Thorp - Yes, but not by funds from the Department of Police and Emergency Management.

Mr DEAN - Justice is getting the blame for the courts and all the rest of it, but anyway, I have made my point. It is an important issue and those police really do need to be supported, Madam President, and the sooner that station is built with a remand centre the better.

There are many issues in these reports that can be raised. The reports cover in the main all of the good issues and the good parts with little emphasis put on areas that are creating concerns. I would like to see these reports at least identify some of those areas. Clearly the statistical detail needs to be proofread and that correction that is required in the 2007-08 report ought to be made because currently that report stands as the true position. Anybody picking that up and relating it to the current one, 2009-10, would very clearly see the glaring mistakes in it. It is pretty difficult to understand why that is allowed to occur and I will be interested to see if a correction is made or if it still stands. It makes you a little careful when looking at the statistical data referred to in these reports. I commend the report to the Council.