Ivan Dean, Speeches Index

Thursday 6 September 2007

LITTER BILL 2007

Mr DEAN ( Windermere ) - I certainly support the bill and I guess after 34 years it is about time a new bill was introduced. I just want to comment first on the hotline: it is good that we have a hotline and it needs to be publicised so that people get to know about it and understand it - and the member for Pembroke raised this as well. But the problem I have with that - and I think we all know it - is that as soon as you tell a person calling in that they must be prepared to go to court they will say, 'Forget it' and they will hang up. That happens all the time with the police. The number of times that people will come into a police station to report an incident and immediately the police officer says, 'Are you prepared to go to court?' they will say, 'No, I'm not. I don't want to be disclosed to the offender, I want to keep my anonymity' and so on. So, to me, that ruins that whole part of it.

I would have thought that, in the circumstances, the best option would have been to accept the phone calls and issue the infringement notices. Then if the infringement notice is not accepted and is not paid - and I suggest that normally the great majority would be paid by people who litter, provided the facts are clear - the person reporting could then be called upon to give evidence if they wanted to do so. I would suggest again that there will not be too many who will come along and do it.

Ms Thorp - If people ring up to report a crime and that question is asked of them, do the police proceed without that agreement from people?

Mr DEAN - The police will proceed in some instances when people say that they will not give evidence. They will proceed sometimes in the hope that there is some other evidence that they can get to satisfy that offence and/or in the hope that people will plead guilty in some instances, and that does happen. To me, we are going to lose a lot of offenders simply by having that part in there, 'Are you prepared to come along to court?'

Ms Thorp - Unfortunate yes, but necessary, I would suggest.

Mr DEAN - I would have thought we could get around that another way - by simply saying to the person who called in, 'Yes, we take your report. What are the details?' - and make sure you have all the details that you need - 'Yes, we will proceed against this person on the facts that you have given us. We are satisfied it is a real complaint. However, if it is not paid we will need to come back to you to see whether or not you are prepared to go to court and give evidence. But we will proceed in the meantime'. That is one way, but there are probably other ways as well. It is just one that I thought of.

I agree with the member for Pembroke that cigarette butts are a nuisance. Not only are they discarded freely all over the place, Mr President, but they also wash into waterways and watercourses, they poison water and they cause a lot of other difficulties and problems as well.

Mr Hall - Dioxin.

Mr DEAN - Yes, you are absolutely right. They are a real nuisance and they really do cause immense problems.

I think one of the areas that comes to mind, Mr President - and you would experience it and see it very frequently - is the area outside Service Tasmania in Civic Square. The place is literally littered with cigarette butts daily.

Ms Forrest - The front door of hospitals is the best place to look for that.

Mr DEAN - You are right. I am aware that recently a complaint has been made about the cigarette butts outside the Launceston General Hospital because they have moved their people outside to smoke. I commend them of course for not allowing smoking in a hospital, but the area outside is now littered with cigarette butts.

Ms Forrest - Would you suggest, though, that if people are going to visit someone in hospital they shouldn't be there so long that they need to have several cigarettes outside on the way in and way out. Surely they could wait until they were somewhere else.

Mr DEAN - They are a nuisance. However, if what I read in the paper this morning is right, New Zealand is trying to ban cigarettes totally within a period of about 10 years. If that happens we will have no further problem with cigarette butts. I am glad to see it in the act because it is, as the member for Pembroke said, the main source of littering that we are currently confronted with.

It is interesting, Mr President, I went to Japan about 12 months or so ago and the absence of cigarette butts was very evident.

Ms Forrest - And they smoke really heavily there.

Mr DEAN - They do. And they still smoke in restaurants and eating places and so on -

Mr Aird - They smoke as they eat.

Mr DEAN - albeit they were looking at legislation in relation to that whilst I was there. But the absence of cigarette butts is very obvious. I did not see them; you would see the very rare cigarette butt.

Mr Hall - You don't see any rubbish either.

Mr DEAN - You do not see rubbish or litter. I questioned people about it and I found that one reason for it is that their penalties are severe. You see signs emblazoned around the place. The fine at that time was equivalent to almost $A400 to $A500.

Mrs SMITH - Does that tell you something?

Mr DEAN - They really take it seriously there and if people litter and get caught they pay the price. I think that we need to have something similar in this State because littering is an eyesore. People do not like dirty cities or towns.

I want to refer to a document that I have here which shows just how seriously some places take littering and cigarette butts in particular. This is a document forwarded to me by Neighbourhood Watch Tasmania. It refers to some information and detail taken from what is currently happening in Glasgow to keep that city clean. I will quote from the document and it will be available to other members. It says:

'More than 120 people have been fined for dropping rubbish in Glasgow since the city's new anti-litter teams hit the streets.'

This document is dated 2 June 2007.

'The army of 30 uniformed enforcers, who wear stab-proof vests, started pounding the city centre in search of litter louts, fly-tippers and vandals eight days ago, issuing £50 fixed penalties to those they catch.'

Mr Parkinson - So people are committing offences everywhere and these people are just looking at litter.

Mr DEAN - That is it.

Mrs Smith - Launceston City Council will be able to employ some next week.

Mr DEAN - I will continue quoting from this document. It goes on:

'The Evening Times newspaper was invited to join two of the squad as they patrolled during a typical lunchtime.'

Mr Wilkinson - You can murder him, but don't drop your knife!

Mr DEAN - And -

'Within 30 minutes, two smokers were caught throwing away their fag ends.

Senior warden Charlie Macklin said: "We are making a real difference on the streets. People are getting to know who we are and why we are here.

It will take time for the zero-tolerance message to sink in with everybody, but for those caught it is an expensive lesson. Hitting these people in the pocket is the way to show how serious we are about cleaning up the city."

After the two smokers were issued with their fixed penalties they admitted that they would be binning their butts in future.

The male offender, who did not wish to be named, said: "I am embarrassed I have been caught.

"I knew about the enforcers and that others had been issued with fines, so I feel silly. The wardens are only doing their jobs."

However the female shop worker, who also refused to be named, insisted she would not be paying her fine. Those who refuse to pay up could end up in court.'

I will make just a couple of other quotes from the document because it is quite interesting:

'She said: "I am outraged. Everybody chucks cigarettes on the street, so I do not know why I have been singled out."'

Is that not a fact? You watch it happen and see them doing it time and time again. Smoke a cigarette and just toss the butt away. That is a very common view or feeling of a lot of people who smoke. The document goes on:

'But she said that she would be forced to change her behaviour. She added: "I suppose I will need to be more careful." '

That is just an indication of how seriously some places and some cities are taking littering, particularly in relation to cigarette butts, as it is seen as a huge issue for them.

I want to comment on the roadside littering - and the member for Pembroke also mentioned that. Littering on the highways is prolific. Unfortunately, it is happening, too much. There are groups of people out there to whom I take my hat off, who continually go along the highways and clean them up. They are doing a wonderful job. They do that at their own cost and use their own time. One of those groups in Launceston is the Soroptimists Club, a Launceston club who annually clean up the side of the highway and then deposit the rubbish at the tip where it should be. That is a group of ladies in the main, who are doing that off their own bat -

Mrs Smith - The schools have an adopt-a-highway program.

Mr DEAN - I was going to mention the Adopt-a-Highway program as well, and I commend all of those people and the schools involved in that program.

Mrs Smith - I offered to adopt our road, but a complainant about rubbish on the road didn't take me up on the offer.

Mr DEAN - I just want to mention this. There was recently a situation where I was involved with a young lady, throwing a cigarette -

Members laughing.

Mr DEAN - Let me start again, Mr President.

Mr PRESIDENT - And do not pause.

Mr DEAN - Let me rephrase that. Recently I observed a young lady throwing away a cigarette butt and I spoke to her about it. Her comment to me was, 'I didn't know it was an offence to throw away a cigarette butt'. Ignorance. We need to educate them and start to let people know what is going on.

Mr Wilkinson - A citizen's arrest?

Mr DEAN - Well, it could well have been, couldn't it? I do not think I would want to go too far.

I want to quickly comment on unsolicited material, material being dropped at homes and in letterboxes, and so on. We often see where letterboxes get so full that these people now just throw it on the footpath or next to the bin. It blows all over the place and is causing problems. I have some difficulty with the act in that regard because I think it is saying that if that is the situation then you can deposit that paraphernalia close by or in another area.

Ms Thorp - No. My understanding is that if someone came up with a pamphlet to deliver, they can slip it under the door, they can put it in the letterbox, or whatever, but they can't do it in such a way as they could reasonably expect that pamphlet to escape. If you went up to a full letterbox and tried to shove something in that would not go in there and you just dumped it, you would be committing an offence.

Mrs Smith - As long as it escapes on public property. Is that right?

Ms Thorp - Yes, that's right - or is likely to escape.

Mr DEAN - I did have a note that I was going to mention it further in the Committee stage, so I may elect to bring it up there, depending on the answers we get in relation to your response. You might well answer it and save me the job of doing that.

The other issue which I believe is good legislation is in relation to leaflets being placed under windscreens of vehicles. A lot of that is happening, and it is not acceptable in my view. The responsibility now is put back not only on the people who print this literature, but the people who are placing it there.

Ms Thorp - Basically you can't do it anymore.

Mr DEAN - Mr President, I might mention the function on Monday night at which I saw you present. It was a wonderful evening, the launching of the John Gunn book by Brendan Lyons. When I came back out to my vehicle - and it was a vehicle I -

Mr PRESIDENT - Mr William Deane.

Mr DEAN - Mr William Deane. That was interesting, was it not, and a little bit embarrassing where a person introducing the Governor introduced him as Sir William Deane, but the Governor did not comment on it, did he? He just took over the speaking part and went on and did not mention it. I thought he might, but he did not.

When I came back out to my vehicle, a vehicle I do not normally drive, I had about 10 stickers on it, red and white stickers. There were 'No pulp mill' stickers stuck all around my car. I guess in that instance there would have been 10 offences committed as there were about 10 different stickers.

Ms Thorp - Were they actually stuck onto your vehicle?

Mr DEAN - They were actually stuck on the vehicle.

Ms Thorp - In that case I would suggest it would be vandalism.

Mr Hall - On the Mercedes or the BMW?

Mr DEAN - On my wife's car.

Ms Thorp - It would only be litter if it could blow away.

Mr DEAN - The act also provides for litterers to be told to clean up any mess. The police can do that. If there is a failure to do that, then there is another offence committed. A court can order people to clean up their mess as well, which I believe is good legislation, and I would hope that that would be used in many instances.

Local governments have a responsibility and they have been policing the anti-littering laws up until now, and no doubt will continue to do so. Now it is made very clear that money from any infringement notices will come back to the council. So there is some incentive for local government to do more in relation to littering. I look forward to that. I am not quite sure how it will work. I suspect the moneys will be paid through Service Tasmania or through consolidated revenue and then reimbursed to that council. The honourable Deputy Leader may be able to provide some explanation in relation to that. I see the legislation as being very good and I will support it. People like clean places, cities and towns and hopefully this legislation will help us to keep those places in a fairly clean condition.

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