I support the matters raised by the chairman of our committee and they were well put. I do not really want to go back through all those issues, other than to comment in the majority on the security issues of the three government business enterprises that we were involved in and had to scrutinise. I have specifically dealt with the issues and I am pleased to say that in all cases - that is, in all the government businesses our committee scrutinised - security was a prominent and significant issue for me; I guess that comes from my background as well. In my view, at this time of terrorism, it needs to be a big issue because a lot of people would say that because of our size, isolation and the numbers of people here this State is probably immune from acts of terrorism and so on, so we need to be very aware of that and therefore security is a big issue, particularly when we are dealing with the ports because of ships and ferries carrying large numbers of people. The Port of Launceston deals with overseas shipping.

If I can refer to the Spirits in the first instance, all ships carry two security personnel, although I understand that the members are not armed. I spoke to a number of security personnel who are performing duties on these ships and their indication to me was that they are there without any arms whatsoever to carry out the duty of ensuring that law and order is maintained on these vessels.

Ms Thorp - Does that make them armless?

Mr DEAN - Well, for the informed, 'arms' means side weapons - batons and a number of other things that I thought you might have been aware of.

Let us be realistic, at times there are 400 to 500-odd people travelling on these ships and those people unfortunately have fairly easy access to alcohol and we know they also have access to illicit drugs, and that is of concern to me. These security people do have some fairly serious situations to attend to from time to time. The police, as we are aware, do have firearms, batons, handcuffs, capsicum spray and all of those other things that will help them in a situation where they are met with some antagonism, angered people and so on, but these people on board the ship do not.

An interesting thing came up when I asked them about their training and what sort of formal training they had to take up their duties on board the vessels. Their comment to me was, 'Almost nil'. They indicated that they were not fully versed in really what they were entitled to do, what they could not do and how they could protect themselves and so on, and that really was of concern to me because they are on board that ship and are responsible for, as I said, maintaining law and order. Mr President, interestingly, when I questioned senior management in the organisation, they said these people are sufficiently trained, they do understand what is going on and they are able to control themselves and to control the people on the vessels who play up and so on.

Ms Thorp - Through you, Mr President - that would be the armless looking after the legless.

Members laughing.

Mr DEAN - I will just continue on, Mr President; I can see that a certain member is persistent in making fun of a very serious matter.
It was interesting to hear the diversity of opinion there between the people at the coalface doing the job as opposed to the management who had put those people there. They are saying that they were not sufficiently trained and the management are saying that they were. I think it is a matter that needs to be looked at and I would urge that the organisation, at the appropriate time, get it right, because at the end of the day it could mean the life of a person, it could mean injury to either an offender or another person, or even to the security officers themselves, and I think it needs to be right.

The other interesting matter on board the ships was the fact that both the Spirits plying between Devonport and Melbourne have brigs and I think there is a need for it because from time to time they need to be used of course. The Spirit running between Sydney and Devonport does not have one at this time but I was pleased to know that it is currently being planned, the work is being done and there will be a brig on board that ship in due course.

Before leaving the Spirits - and that is really all I wanted to say in relation to security - I just wanted to take up on one point that the chairperson referred to and that was the Edgewater Hotel. I did have some concerns with that, I must say, as did a lot of the people we spoke to in regard to this, Mr President, because as we have heard the management of the TT-Line say to us on a number of occasions, they were in the business of transporting and not in the business of tourism but yet, as we heard, the Edgewater Hotel is being used for the purposes of accommodating travellers and tourists coming to this State, and that is an indication that they are competing against other similar businesses in and about Devonport in particular, Mr President.

Some of those businesses that we spoke to in Devonport see the TT-Line, to use their words, as having an unfair advantage in that regard because they know who is coming here, they know the accommodation requirements of a lot of these people and therefore they have the advantage and the ability to book those people into their premises. I guess another concerning issue to me there is that there is further information now available to suggest that there are going to be extensions made to that hotel or motel. In fact, I am advised there could even be a third floor. Once again, that would seem to me to be an expansion of a business supplying accommodation and meals to tourists coming into this State

Mr Fletcher - If you have a government agency in business you would want them to run that business well, wouldn't you?

Mr DEAN - You certainly would want them to run the business well but they tell us that they are in the business of transportation, of moving people to and fro, and they are not in the business of tourist operations, they are not competing. They tell us that they are not in the business of providing for people once they reach the land. That is what they have told us and the interesting thing there was that, as the chairperson has mentioned, when we sought to get the figures of the numbers of people staying at their premises, they would not provide them to us. But I do not want to say any more than that other than to say that I have some concerns in that regard and so do many of the businesses operating at Devonport. They have and share those same concerns.

Before I leave the TT?Line, I just want to very briefly mention the GBE question period that we went through with management and ministers and I must say that I was disappointed at the responses that I received in particular to one or two of the questions I asked and I felt that I was probably out of place in scrutinising that business. That was the TT?Line, but after all is said and done, that is what this committee is about, Mr President - scrutinising these government businesses - and I must say I was disappointed.
I cannot say the same in relation to those members supporting the ports because they were extremely polite and answered every question that was asked of them and I thought in a very responsible manner. I just want to touch briefly on the security at the ports. All ports have committed financially - that is the three northern ports we are referring to, Devonport, Burnie and Bell Bay ? to providing contemporary security measures to their respective areas, and in fact I congratulate the CEOs and all of their staff. Security has been updated in all areas and will continue to undergo modernisation programs into the future, so all these areas are very, very conscious of the need to ensure that their security, in fact, is state of the art. They understand that, they accept that and therefore there is this preparedness to spend a lot of money in that regard and they are doing that.

While I congratulate all areas, I want to specifically single out the Port of Launceston Authority and not because it happens to be in the Windermere electorate, but because it really does set the benchmark for all the other ports to aspire to, in my view, Mr President.

Mr Finch - The ships are in the Rosevears electorate too, don't forget.

Mr DEAN - In fact, it has been identified without any doubt whatsoever as state of the art. I do not think you can get any better security. I have a fair background and fair knowledge and understanding of security issues and I was gobstopped.

Ms Thorp - Gobsmacked.

Mr DEAN - Thank you. I knew that the member for Rumney -

Mr Fletcher - They were gobstoppers in my day.

Ms Thorp - They didn't work though, did they?

Members laughing.

Mr DEAN - There has been huge expenditure on the part of that authority in the year 2003?04; in fact, almost $500 000 spent on upgrading their security. I want to refer to some of the security arrangements that they do have in place at Bell Bay at the present time. There is perimeter fencing enclosing the entire port area at Bell Bay. For those who know Bell Bay, it is a very large area and very difficult to fence, but they have undertaken that task. It is completely secured by fencing now with a security fence right around the premises.

There is CCTV - closed circuit TV - coverage for all berths including the Tamar River and the Bell Bay area, and that is interesting because all port authorities identified the water as being the greatest security risk to all.

Ms Thorp - Do they?

Mr DEAN - Because of access to vessels and so on. So they identify that as probably their most important matter to really get on top of and get control of. They have also installed boom gates at the main entrance and they are considering another boom gate at the exit as well. The gates are all monitored by closed circuit television; all persons requiring access are provided with ID cards. They must use the ID card to get in and out, and that currently is not in place at the other ports and they would be urged to go down that line in due course - and I dare say they will.
Personal entry and departures are all recorded on databases. A security assessment has been completed and a security plan is currently being developed, and that is common with all three ports, Mr President. They all now have to do that; that is a part of their requirements. The port has expended, as I said, about $250 000 on security upgrades over the year. What they have in mind for next year, 2004-05, is a further expenditure of a similar amount of money - between $200 000 and $250 000. Now they are looking at establishing a boom gate CCTV at the rear entrance, installing an additional camera to monitor number 7 container storage area - that is the one that is being established now - and installing a camera now at Low Head to monitor vessels coming into the Tamar River. It was quite interesting to me that they should consider putting in a monitor at the head of the river to identify vessels coming in from that area.

Ms Thorp - As a first warning?

Mr DEAN - As a first warning and to keep track of vessels and so on. It will not only serve the purpose of security but, as we all know, the heads of the Tamar River are very dangerous. We know of two major shipping accidents in that area, so it will serve another purpose as well. There is also going to be consideration given to an installation of an automatic identification system. They are the arrangements that they have in plan at this stage to put in in this next financial year. As I said, there is no doubt that that port sets the benchmark for the other two to aspire to. River security is difficult and that is the issue that kept coming up to us the whole time.

I enjoyed my time on this government business enterprise hearing. It was really a very interesting period, a very educational period; I certainly learned a lot. It is interesting to see where our government businesses are going. I also would like to thank and put on record my appreciation for the way the CEOs of these organisations dealt with us on site. We could not have been treated better. There was a strong position there to support us in any way possible, there were no problems with answering questions and so on, so I would like to compliment all those CEOs and their staff for the way in which they met us and what they did for us.

Mr Fletcher - Before you sit down -

Mr DEAN - Don't make your question too hard.

Members laughing.

Mr Fletcher - Given your closing statement, you did say earlier on that you felt as though information wasn't being provided to you. Was it the same CEO?

Mr DEAN - No, it was not. This was during the government business enterprise questioning time here where the ministers came together with the CEOs of these organisations. It was in a different environment. That was here where we had the opportunity to ask a number of questions of the minister responsible for each of these areas.

Mr Fletcher - Did the minister withhold information from you?

Mr DEAN - No, I am not saying the minister withheld information at all, but the CEOs who were required to answer some of those questions were in some ways not as responsive as they could have been. In fact I saw - and I use this word and I know that the speaker will jump right down my throat - a certain amount of arrogance coming out of it, which did not impress me in any way whatsoever. These are businesses that are owned by the people; they belong to the people.
Mr Fletcher - Yes, I agree with that, but you've just praised them and said they couldn't have been more cooperative. Earlier on you seemed to be saying that they weren't.

Mr DEAN - I am talking about the CEOs at the coalface, the people responsible and in charge at the Burnie port, the Devonport port and the Bell Bay port. They were not the same people who came here to answer our questions. Sorry, that is not quite right. I mean the TT?Line representatives were not the same people that we had previously spoken to. I think the chairperson - and correct me if I am wrong there - the TT-Line members were the ones that we had not previously spoken to.

Mr Fletcher - So you are saying there was a problem with the TT-Line?

Mr DEAN - Absolutely. I said that I think for the record, Mr President, it was the TT-Line and if I did not, I now say it.

Mr Aird - You are beating about the bush but we know who you mean.

Mr DEAN - I think you now know who it is. Thank you, Mr President.