Wheelchair-accessible taxis pose no problems. We need to ensure that people dependent on wheelchairs and other aids to commute have similar facilities and similar opportunities to use vehicles to any other person. I accept that it is a good move and it is a move in the right direction. I am not so sure as to the viability of some of those vehicles when they are in place. However that is another issue and will have to be addressed, Mr President, obviously by the people taking up those licences.

Deregulation baffles me, I must say; I am not convinced that it is in the best interests of the community. I was disappointed that we did not receive a briefing from the taxi groups or the owner-drivers; we heard one side of the argument only. I do admit, of course, that the briefing we had this morning was well articulated and was very persuasive in its support of the bill that is currently before this House. Having said that, I note in correspondence from the President, the Secretary and the Executive Officer of Taxis Tasmania Inc. - and that was a document dated 15 August 2003 and addressed for the attention of the honourable Premier, Mr Bacon - there was a reference to a meeting and I will just quote that reference:

'we would like to take the opportunity to request a meeting with members of our executive committee at a convenient time to discuss these and other issues.'

I take it that that was the committee that was set up in relation to this issue.

Mr Aird - No. Who are you referring to, Taxi who?

Mr DEAN - This was Taxis Incorporated where in a letter addressed to the Premier -

Mr Aird - Who signed the letter?

Mr DEAN - The letter was signed by the President, Mr John Campton; the Secretary, Keith Orme and Tony Stephen, the Executive Officer. However, their signatures are not on this. This is obviously an e-mailed document.

Mr Aird - That was the organisation that was set up - a breakaway group who set themselves up. I do not know who they claim to represent in totality but really, they were first established in relation to the cameras in taxis issue; that is how they emerged as a group, but I don't know who they represent.

Mr Wilkinson - They were concerned with cameras in taxis.

Mr DEAN - The correspondence I have quoted from and which is for the information of the Premier, identifies that that group are representative of the taxis throughout Tasmania. I do not know how many are in that group but they are on the subject of this point of deregulation in this document.

Mr Aird - The main representative organisation is the Taxi Industry Association of Tasmania; that is the generally recognised bona fide organisation representing taxi drivers. The organisation you are referring to has hived itself off initially on the basis that they did not agree with the Taxi Industry Association of Tasmania's support for cameras inside cabs and now they are taking up some other issues in what they consider to be their constituency. I do not know who that is and I don't think anyone does really.

Mr DEAN - I had some concern about that but I accept the position. I will not labour my concerns much but I want to quote from two other documents and these documents obviously are in the possession of other members, I would suggest. I just refer to a document that is addressed to all members of the Legislative Council and it is dated 2 December and was forwarded again by the Honorary Secretary, Keith Orme of Taxis Tasmania Inc. I quote from that document:

'I assure you, irrespective of the minister's advice, there is very little support in the real world for these additional measures, and it is the start of ruining of what is regarded as the best Taxi Industry in Australia in the 2002 National Survey.'

It seems to me that that comment is accurate, and there is no reason for me to accept otherwise, that we already have a very good taxi operation here in Tasmania. With that in mind I would ask the question as to why if we have such a good operation - and in that survey we rated extremely well - we would really want to interfere too much with it. I also quote a little further on in that document which says:

'I presume that you are aware of the disastrous effect of deregulation in New Zealand and Darwin.'

I believe this morning a question was asked at the briefing about deregulation in the other areas and I do not think there was any comment on it, or the comment was that they were not aware of what deregulation had created in those other areas.

Mr Aird - New Zealand wasn't mentioned. That was a total deregulation in terms of what we are talking about now. There was reference made to the national competition position in terms of the other jurisdictions. We read out a statement and I will read it out here, again.

Mr DEAN - Thank you very much. There is one further document. Again, this document was circulated, I guess, to all members of this House. This document was sent in by an owner?driver. The person sending it was Mr Philippou. In relation to additional licences this gentleman who is an owner-driver says this:

'There is currently an oversupply of taxis in Tasmania and the current fleet could be reduced by 10 to 15% to make it viable for the remainder. For example, Burnie taxis operate on a roster system and, if introduced elsewhere, it would mean the same amount would be earned with fewer hours. The sale of new licences will mean a drop in the value of the current licences and less turnover for most taxis.'

I must say that is a concern of mine and I really fail to see where the sale of more licences is really going to help this industry at the end of the day. It may in the short term assist with a decrease in fares but in the long run I do not see where it is going to be advantageous for the public of Tasmania and all those users of the taxis.

There is a comment made here on discount fares which says:

'Most taxi operators are not making much money due to increased costs (MAIB, Insurances, Petrol, GST, etc.) and a flat revenue curve despite increased tariffs. This loss of market is due to a number of factors: reduction of staff numbers in both industry and the public service with relocation to mainland centres, door?stopper buses,' -

I think he means the Shopper Stopper buses there. We know they are the Metro buses that specifically go out and target some areas, elderly homes for instance, and convey those people to shopping zones and so on.

'an increase in the number of courtesy cars in the community,' -

Indeed that was referred to by the honourable member for Mersey in the briefing as well.

'loss of customers because many cannot afford a taxi fare and now take the bus.'

There are some of the concerns raised by an owner-driver and they are concerns that I myself have. There have been a number of taxi operators or drivers in particular in the Launceston area who have spoken to me about this. Indeed, they spoke to me about the video camera situation as well.

One operator, in fact, one evening invited me to drive around with him just to see what taxi drivers were confronted with in the normal course of their duty. I must say it was an eye-opener to travel about, to witness some of the events that these taxi drivers had to put up with, in fact some of the things that they were able to see and some of the other things they were doing for this State.

Mr Parkinson - He probably lost half of his customers that night.

Mr DEAN - He probably did. Thankfully a lot of the people would not have known of my previous occupation and perhaps they might have felt more comfortable.

Mr Wilkinson - You weren't in uniform?

Mr DEAN - I was not in uniform, no. It was after my demise. No, it was only recently. I took advantage of that offer. I wanted to see for myself some of the concerns of taxi drivers. They do work long hours, there is no doubt about that, and some of these operators work seven days a week to really make a go of it, and at the end of the day their salary is fairly ordinary if one compares it with that of a lot of other people. Particularly if you take into account the number of hours that they now work to get that salary, it is a fairly poor salary.

I fail to see where deregulation is going to assist too much with that side of it; certainly I can see the potential for the discounting of fares, I can see the situation of people being ferried about probably at some cheaper rates and so on, but I do have concerns for the drivers. These are people who, at the end of the day, we expect to sell this State and they do. We expect them to get out there and to tell the tourists that they are involved with on a day?to?day basis all the good things about this State. We expect them to identify the scenic areas and so on for these people. We depend on them a lot and in particular police depend on our taxi drivers to a large extent in maintaining the safety of these areas, and indeed most of them do that. So it is an industry that we need to really look after, in my view.

They are absolutely critical to the State and, as I said, provide many other services other than just ferrying the local person to and from home, work to home, once they have had alcohol and so on. They are vitally important to this State. I am not quite sure if we have it absolutely right. However, having said all that - I have raised my concerns - I will be supporting the bill that is currently before the Council.